Just a casual observer here, but haven’t we already acknowledged battleships are obsolete? Since we’re here, jet fighters too?
Perhaps not today, but very soon, and if not before the next shootout on the high seas, definitely before any new ships are built.
To this untrained eye, battle ships are massive targets that will be overwhelmed by drones. Thousands of drones, if that’s what’s required.
Ever been in a forest and swarmed by black flies? The little monsters one size up from “no see-ums”? They make mosquitoes seem like a picnic.
I’m from Northern Canada, where black flies are the most insidious pest in the bush. They will make you insane, literally.
I imagine battleships like I remember myself in the forest, “ignoring” a swarm of black flies. It’s a compromise that can be maintained for a short time, if you’re slathered in Deet, or wearing a net, or both. Ultimately, there’s no solution. No escape. Just insanity or death.
The original concept of the stealth fighter jet was conceived by an officer who wanted small, lightly armed planes, because smaller meant an inherently smaller signature on radar. As to being lightly armed as a consequence of the small size, he explained the virtue as, "Imagine if I entered the Pentagon armed only with a pin, but I were invisible — I could empty the place in fifteen minutes!"
I would suggest that this clunky expensive monster be called The Titanic. It's got a ring to it.
Failing that, he could call it the Moskva, another winning name.
In either case, it would enable Trump to dress up as a Lord High Admiral with lotsa gold braid. And, of course, it would have a below-decks ballroom for major events.
Or it could be called The Gump, with the winning slogan "stupid is, as stupid does."
I am not military but intuitively everything you say makes sense. Before I even got a quarter way through reading I was imagining what a target this brute would be, and both the strategic and psychological impact gained by sinking it. It would be so symbolic. To be perfectly frank, it’s a big penis-boat. Trump and Hegseth must love it.
“For $10 billion you could build roughly four to five Flight III Arleigh Burkes.”
I’m definitely in that camp. Sometimes small, agile, and stealth works better than ostentation.
I (grudgingly) admit you have a point. Maybe more than one. But it is absolutely critical that we not screw this up _again_. The US cannot afford yet another shipbuilding failure. If it were up to me, I’d fire everyone at NAVSEA O-6 and above and recall officers, no matter their age, who actually know how to build ships. ⚓️
Sounds like a pretty good argument for an updated Ticonderoga class cruiser (great CVN shotgun, air defender, and power projector... just old). Traditional hulls, updated radar and software. The problem still lies with our expensive missiles for the VLS. Our nation needs a much less expensive and rapidly scalable solution to cheap drones and anti-ship missiles. Perhaps lasers will fill that gap in the near future but you will need a huge power source. Tie the defensive capabilities of lasers with the power projection capabilities of the Tomahawk and I believe you could build a less risky, more cost effective cruiser.
We cannot protect a Jerry Ford against a stealth submarine. How are we going to protect a large noisy surface target against a fleet of stealth drone dropping stealth submarines. What we need are stealth submarines that can disperse clouds of stealth submarine drones. The biggest rule of combat today is you must be stealthy and quick or you are going to dead very quickly. Yes we might be able to stop incoming missiles but have already proven we cannot find stealth undersea submarines.
I regret to Congress that this was initially a most entertaining post, with me laughing my fool head off to see Wes O'Donnell confirm my thoughts on this mindless monstrosity... until it became sobering. Wait; this is really what those dummies want to build? Not so long ago, the Navy decided not to build a bunch of Zumwalts, because the Arleigh Burkes were perfectly sound hulls of just the right size and pricepoint, and modern naval might was really about sensors and distributed forces anyway. Now, Trumpipoo wants to please himself with... this easy target?
I love Old Ironsides and agree that it should be the flagship of United States fleet, but it would be about as effective in today's naval warfare as Trump's battleship, if for different reasons.
P.S. — Bath Ironworks is not immediately on the ocean, but is a ways up the Kennebec River. For to the river's depth, the Zumwalt was about as large a ship as it could both build and deliver to the sea. A Chump battleship could not be built there.
All China need do is launch a few dozen or so DF-21 (or similar) missiles at it. The odds are very good that a few would get through. Or in a major war, a few nukes. Either way, that thing is very vulnerable in today's world (as are supercarriers). With enough "cheaper than major naval combatants" missiles...
It's going to be a missile/torpedo magnet and a military budget buster.
Thanks. Case closed then. Sorry… case sunk already. Another stupid unhinged out of this world trump blah blah. That kind of ship will be swiftly dealt with a much cheaper weapon. Underwater smart drones. Or aquaman.
I suspect a nuclear powered Iowa class type old schools battleship is better than this. A large electricity generating platform for command and control in a more survivable hull, surrounded by several Arleigh Burkes for missile deployment. I'm probably wrong, but that at least wouldn't depend on pie in the sky, sci-fi weapons systems.
Just a casual observer here, but haven’t we already acknowledged battleships are obsolete? Since we’re here, jet fighters too?
Perhaps not today, but very soon, and if not before the next shootout on the high seas, definitely before any new ships are built.
To this untrained eye, battle ships are massive targets that will be overwhelmed by drones. Thousands of drones, if that’s what’s required.
Ever been in a forest and swarmed by black flies? The little monsters one size up from “no see-ums”? They make mosquitoes seem like a picnic.
I’m from Northern Canada, where black flies are the most insidious pest in the bush. They will make you insane, literally.
I imagine battleships like I remember myself in the forest, “ignoring” a swarm of black flies. It’s a compromise that can be maintained for a short time, if you’re slathered in Deet, or wearing a net, or both. Ultimately, there’s no solution. No escape. Just insanity or death.
But again, untrained observer. 😯
Leslie, everything you said is spot on!
Wow!
. .. ok. Im signing up for another year. 😉
The original concept of the stealth fighter jet was conceived by an officer who wanted small, lightly armed planes, because smaller meant an inherently smaller signature on radar. As to being lightly armed as a consequence of the small size, he explained the virtue as, "Imagine if I entered the Pentagon armed only with a pin, but I were invisible — I could empty the place in fifteen minutes!"
I would suggest that this clunky expensive monster be called The Titanic. It's got a ring to it.
Failing that, he could call it the Moskva, another winning name.
In either case, it would enable Trump to dress up as a Lord High Admiral with lotsa gold braid. And, of course, it would have a below-decks ballroom for major events.
Or it could be called The Gump, with the winning slogan "stupid is, as stupid does."
I am not military but intuitively everything you say makes sense. Before I even got a quarter way through reading I was imagining what a target this brute would be, and both the strategic and psychological impact gained by sinking it. It would be so symbolic. To be perfectly frank, it’s a big penis-boat. Trump and Hegseth must love it.
“For $10 billion you could build roughly four to five Flight III Arleigh Burkes.”
I’m definitely in that camp. Sometimes small, agile, and stealth works better than ostentation.
I (grudgingly) admit you have a point. Maybe more than one. But it is absolutely critical that we not screw this up _again_. The US cannot afford yet another shipbuilding failure. If it were up to me, I’d fire everyone at NAVSEA O-6 and above and recall officers, no matter their age, who actually know how to build ships. ⚓️
You had me at ‘Trump recently pitched …’
Sounds like a pretty good argument for an updated Ticonderoga class cruiser (great CVN shotgun, air defender, and power projector... just old). Traditional hulls, updated radar and software. The problem still lies with our expensive missiles for the VLS. Our nation needs a much less expensive and rapidly scalable solution to cheap drones and anti-ship missiles. Perhaps lasers will fill that gap in the near future but you will need a huge power source. Tie the defensive capabilities of lasers with the power projection capabilities of the Tomahawk and I believe you could build a less risky, more cost effective cruiser.
That's a great point. I didn't consider the missiles themselves in the VLS tubes are way overpriced.
We cannot protect a Jerry Ford against a stealth submarine. How are we going to protect a large noisy surface target against a fleet of stealth drone dropping stealth submarines. What we need are stealth submarines that can disperse clouds of stealth submarine drones. The biggest rule of combat today is you must be stealthy and quick or you are going to dead very quickly. Yes we might be able to stop incoming missiles but have already proven we cannot find stealth undersea submarines.
May as well call it the Yamato or Bismarck.
I regret to Congress that this was initially a most entertaining post, with me laughing my fool head off to see Wes O'Donnell confirm my thoughts on this mindless monstrosity... until it became sobering. Wait; this is really what those dummies want to build? Not so long ago, the Navy decided not to build a bunch of Zumwalts, because the Arleigh Burkes were perfectly sound hulls of just the right size and pricepoint, and modern naval might was really about sensors and distributed forces anyway. Now, Trumpipoo wants to please himself with... this easy target?
I love Old Ironsides and agree that it should be the flagship of United States fleet, but it would be about as effective in today's naval warfare as Trump's battleship, if for different reasons.
P.S. — Bath Ironworks is not immediately on the ocean, but is a ways up the Kennebec River. For to the river's depth, the Zumwalt was about as large a ship as it could both build and deliver to the sea. A Chump battleship could not be built there.
All China need do is launch a few dozen or so DF-21 (or similar) missiles at it. The odds are very good that a few would get through. Or in a major war, a few nukes. Either way, that thing is very vulnerable in today's world (as are supercarriers). With enough "cheaper than major naval combatants" missiles...
It's going to be a missile/torpedo magnet and a military budget buster.
Thanks. Case closed then. Sorry… case sunk already. Another stupid unhinged out of this world trump blah blah. That kind of ship will be swiftly dealt with a much cheaper weapon. Underwater smart drones. Or aquaman.
I suspect a nuclear powered Iowa class type old schools battleship is better than this. A large electricity generating platform for command and control in a more survivable hull, surrounded by several Arleigh Burkes for missile deployment. I'm probably wrong, but that at least wouldn't depend on pie in the sky, sci-fi weapons systems.