I must admit I am surprised. The brainwashing, yes. The dedication, well maybe. The discipline, yes, but adapted to war? I accept the story and the level of skills these soldiers have. But it cannot be the level of skill by all. The regime is too corrupt, too sel focused, to rigid to allow for that. And there are too many soldiers, because every one must be a soldier. So if these are good they have to be some kadre. Mind you, the most important thing here is loyalty to the regime so they don’t dessert. But that fits well with discipline of course. Still, I would assume Kim could send some more high quality soldiers. But he has to balance the need for money with his need for internal safety. And that means soldiers at home.
I agree, Hans. Like Michael mentioned in another comment, I suspect these are the "special" forces. The vast bulk of their infantry likely isn't nearly this disciplined.
Is it possible that the quality of the North Korean soldiers is due to only sending the top 5% of troops rather than regular Infantry units who might be of lower quality?
Also, how do you do target practice against drones? I would think that is more challenging than regular target practice due to harder range estimation and potential movement in three dimensions.
Yeah, unless you're using a boomstick (shotgun) shooting down a quadcopter takes a decent level of skill. And yet, Ukraine reports that these DPRK troops are exceptionally good at it. But I think you're right. These are likely their version of Tier 1, which would explain their cultish level of devotion, even over the typically high level of devotion of normal North Koreans.
I read this with great, great interest. The disciplined, robotic-like demeanour doesn’t surprise me. Communist culture always taught their people to identify as a part of a great and honourable “Collective”. The individual has been suppressed to the point he barely exists.
Many years ago I became fascinated with the ancient classical Chinese operas. Children (boys) studied for decades to recreate the masterpieces, century after century. No minutia was overlooked, down to the exact position of the fifth finger in a certain gesture, in a certain scene, in a certain moment.
My point is, there was no concept of artistic interpretation, or anything that brought the actor’s individuality to the attention of the audience. I guess it’s an odd thing to compare soldiers to opera performers, but to me I instantly think of how very eastern it all seems, compared to the west.
So yes Wes, I can imagine “thinking on your feet” would be very foreign to their training.
Keep in mind the personal situation of these supposedly-top North Korean troops. They have been raised from birth in the Hermit Kingdom to do what they're told to do and never disobey because punishment will extend to their family in often horrific ways.
Yes, your father was trained as a doctor but because you were seen to show disrespect to a superior, a teacher, your proud nation or whatever, he is now planting rice in the most difficult terrain in the country with no contact with your mother, who is now a 14- or 16-hour/day clean-up person at a government cafeteria. And, of course, your grandfather, who gained acclaim through bravery in the Great War for Freedom 70 years ago, has just had his pension revoked. Your siblings have no future, and all because you brought shame on your family, your country and most importantly, your Supreme Leader.
For an idea of what life is like in the North Korean "paradise", read George Orwell's "1984".
Every step you take, every word you speak, everything you do in life is observed, criticized and possibly used to single you out as a potential dangerous character. But somehow you've managed to make it in the army and you have shown remarkable discipline throughout. You've been given the opportunity to fight and die for the Supreme Leader as part of a contingent of over-achievers who will be fighting in a foreign country (the only chance you'll have in your undernourished life to go to a foreign country) and showing to the world the superiority of your country and the brilliance of Kim Jong-un Thought.
So you and the other robots journey to the front and have explicit instructions about what they will be doing to bring glory to the Hermit Kingdom and Kim Jong-un. If you fail to march to your death, if you decide to desert in battle, are captured or fail in any way, you bring shame on your Great Leader, your great country, and everyone in your family. So if it is required that along with other soldiers in your unit you rush the enemy lines and are killed. Only a minor if regrettable error on your part that hopefully will result only in a medal and some extra food rations for your family back home.
These virtual automatons are scary because once they've been sent to attack they don't stop. Victory or death. What did Kim Jong-un get out of it all? Advanced technology that they will use in making their armed forces and defenses stronger, but every injury or death suffered by their troops rebounds poorly on the armed forces, the Kingdom and Kim Jong-un himself. Look no further for the reasons why Putin has pulled back the North Korean troops from battle, at least for now. He'd much rather lose 1,000 low-life Siberian nationals than even 100 elite troops from his new ally. Will he bring them back to battle? Only if the situation on the front becomes really desperate and even then, the price for using them - that is, more advanced tech to North Korea - may be too dangerous a trade.
“For the Russians in Ukraine, skill is a little more difficult to discern. For instance, are they firing on nuclear power plants and civilians because they lack basic soldiering skills? Or are they just assholes?”
Do we need to ask this question about the IDF? Is there a reason both can’t be true?
IDF is anything but skillful. Their NCO corps is weak like the Russians, hence the lack of discipline and indiscriminate fire. This is from both inheriting the same Russian Tsarist military traditions.
It makes sense that the later waves of North Korean troops are more competent given the initial waves were used to assess Ukrainian capabilities and their ability to work with Russians.
This was very interesting indeed Wes. Soldiering skills and fanatic dedication; a formidable combination.
It will be interesting to see if their skills with other weapons such as their artillery or even tanks if it comes to that, is equal to their individual soldier skills. The war continues.
Not sure why this would be a surprise. My assumption is that a high level of discipline and an even higher level of performance is required to be a member of the North Korean military. My other assumption is you likely don’t want to fall short of expectations.
Thanks for another good article Wes, I found it very thought provoking especially the analogy about bringing a 'knife to a gunfight,' and the observation that North Korean troops are highly motivated and well-trained, but not to fight a contemporary war. A good read.
You lost me at ‘increasingly desperate Kremlin’ as if Russia is losing the war even the reality is that they’re winning soundly and beating the Ukrainians down with little difficulty.
Not surprising their humanity has been crushed and they are so filled with toxic nationalism that dare not fail and embarrass their country. Almost the perfect soldier.
I must admit I am surprised. The brainwashing, yes. The dedication, well maybe. The discipline, yes, but adapted to war? I accept the story and the level of skills these soldiers have. But it cannot be the level of skill by all. The regime is too corrupt, too sel focused, to rigid to allow for that. And there are too many soldiers, because every one must be a soldier. So if these are good they have to be some kadre. Mind you, the most important thing here is loyalty to the regime so they don’t dessert. But that fits well with discipline of course. Still, I would assume Kim could send some more high quality soldiers. But he has to balance the need for money with his need for internal safety. And that means soldiers at home.
For a good description of life in North Korea, take a look at this graphic novel. It’s from 2003, but I think a lot is still valid. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pyongyang:_A_Journey_in_North_Korea
I agree, Hans. Like Michael mentioned in another comment, I suspect these are the "special" forces. The vast bulk of their infantry likely isn't nearly this disciplined.
Good point. I still stay with my comment that the regime is too corrupt to produce a lot of good soliders.
Interesting.
Is it possible that the quality of the North Korean soldiers is due to only sending the top 5% of troops rather than regular Infantry units who might be of lower quality?
Also, how do you do target practice against drones? I would think that is more challenging than regular target practice due to harder range estimation and potential movement in three dimensions.
Yeah, unless you're using a boomstick (shotgun) shooting down a quadcopter takes a decent level of skill. And yet, Ukraine reports that these DPRK troops are exceptionally good at it. But I think you're right. These are likely their version of Tier 1, which would explain their cultish level of devotion, even over the typically high level of devotion of normal North Koreans.
I read this with great, great interest. The disciplined, robotic-like demeanour doesn’t surprise me. Communist culture always taught their people to identify as a part of a great and honourable “Collective”. The individual has been suppressed to the point he barely exists.
Many years ago I became fascinated with the ancient classical Chinese operas. Children (boys) studied for decades to recreate the masterpieces, century after century. No minutia was overlooked, down to the exact position of the fifth finger in a certain gesture, in a certain scene, in a certain moment.
My point is, there was no concept of artistic interpretation, or anything that brought the actor’s individuality to the attention of the audience. I guess it’s an odd thing to compare soldiers to opera performers, but to me I instantly think of how very eastern it all seems, compared to the west.
So yes Wes, I can imagine “thinking on your feet” would be very foreign to their training.
Keep in mind the personal situation of these supposedly-top North Korean troops. They have been raised from birth in the Hermit Kingdom to do what they're told to do and never disobey because punishment will extend to their family in often horrific ways.
Yes, your father was trained as a doctor but because you were seen to show disrespect to a superior, a teacher, your proud nation or whatever, he is now planting rice in the most difficult terrain in the country with no contact with your mother, who is now a 14- or 16-hour/day clean-up person at a government cafeteria. And, of course, your grandfather, who gained acclaim through bravery in the Great War for Freedom 70 years ago, has just had his pension revoked. Your siblings have no future, and all because you brought shame on your family, your country and most importantly, your Supreme Leader.
For an idea of what life is like in the North Korean "paradise", read George Orwell's "1984".
Every step you take, every word you speak, everything you do in life is observed, criticized and possibly used to single you out as a potential dangerous character. But somehow you've managed to make it in the army and you have shown remarkable discipline throughout. You've been given the opportunity to fight and die for the Supreme Leader as part of a contingent of over-achievers who will be fighting in a foreign country (the only chance you'll have in your undernourished life to go to a foreign country) and showing to the world the superiority of your country and the brilliance of Kim Jong-un Thought.
So you and the other robots journey to the front and have explicit instructions about what they will be doing to bring glory to the Hermit Kingdom and Kim Jong-un. If you fail to march to your death, if you decide to desert in battle, are captured or fail in any way, you bring shame on your Great Leader, your great country, and everyone in your family. So if it is required that along with other soldiers in your unit you rush the enemy lines and are killed. Only a minor if regrettable error on your part that hopefully will result only in a medal and some extra food rations for your family back home.
These virtual automatons are scary because once they've been sent to attack they don't stop. Victory or death. What did Kim Jong-un get out of it all? Advanced technology that they will use in making their armed forces and defenses stronger, but every injury or death suffered by their troops rebounds poorly on the armed forces, the Kingdom and Kim Jong-un himself. Look no further for the reasons why Putin has pulled back the North Korean troops from battle, at least for now. He'd much rather lose 1,000 low-life Siberian nationals than even 100 elite troops from his new ally. Will he bring them back to battle? Only if the situation on the front becomes really desperate and even then, the price for using them - that is, more advanced tech to North Korea - may be too dangerous a trade.
So if Russia is doing so badly and their soldiers are so bad why are they rolling up the most heavily fortified and defended territory on the planet?
“For the Russians in Ukraine, skill is a little more difficult to discern. For instance, are they firing on nuclear power plants and civilians because they lack basic soldiering skills? Or are they just assholes?”
Do we need to ask this question about the IDF? Is there a reason both can’t be true?
IDF is anything but skillful. Their NCO corps is weak like the Russians, hence the lack of discipline and indiscriminate fire. This is from both inheriting the same Russian Tsarist military traditions.
https://www.unz.com/plang/israels-juvenile-ground-army/
It makes sense that the later waves of North Korean troops are more competent given the initial waves were used to assess Ukrainian capabilities and their ability to work with Russians.
This was very interesting indeed Wes. Soldiering skills and fanatic dedication; a formidable combination.
It will be interesting to see if their skills with other weapons such as their artillery or even tanks if it comes to that, is equal to their individual soldier skills. The war continues.
Not sure why this would be a surprise. My assumption is that a high level of discipline and an even higher level of performance is required to be a member of the North Korean military. My other assumption is you likely don’t want to fall short of expectations.
Why are they comparing them to 2022 Wagner?
Wagner fed 20,000 convicts to win Bakhmut. Those Storm Z units were cannon fodder, not real soldiers.
Skillful or not they appear to have died in very large numbers and are now withdrawn (see https://hotair.com/john-s-2/2025/01/31/after-months-of-using-them-as-cannon-fodder-north-korean-troops-are-pulled-from-the-front-lines-n3799380 with lots of links to other places)
Thanks for another good article Wes, I found it very thought provoking especially the analogy about bringing a 'knife to a gunfight,' and the observation that North Korean troops are highly motivated and well-trained, but not to fight a contemporary war. A good read.
Is there any video or photographic proof of North Korean soldiers, or is it just “Source: trust me, bro”
You lost me at ‘increasingly desperate Kremlin’ as if Russia is losing the war even the reality is that they’re winning soundly and beating the Ukrainians down with little difficulty.
Not surprising their humanity has been crushed and they are so filled with toxic nationalism that dare not fail and embarrass their country. Almost the perfect soldier.
That's why they got taken off the line due to catastrophic casualties.