Maybe the Nobel Committee should establish an Innovation Prize. If they did, Ukraine should receive it in 2025, 2026 and beyond. In the meantime, they should do the world a solid and give Ukraine the Peace Prize.
The Yak 52 looks like it's equivalent to the old T-6. I can think of several prop aircraft (singles and multi) currently available that can be adapted to hunt drones, like the Tucano you mentioned. I wonder if Ukraine is looking for faster alternatives?
Air to air gunnery isn't easy. Their accuracy is impressive. Slava Ukrani!
i recall a similar imbalance in the 1970s between apartheid Rhodesia flying postwar British propeller-driven planes & (i think it was Mozambique) flying Soviet MiGs - The latter not being able to fly slowly-enough to engage with the Rhodesians.
This is literally early Great War air combat tactics from before they started mounting MGs on planes - observers plinking at the enemy with rifles. In a somewhat exotic touch the Germans used a number of Mexican Mondragon self-loading rifles for the job, which as bonus turned out to be capable of using a slightly modified version of the Luger pistol's (in)famous snail-drum magazine to increase mag depth.
Adversaries were ofc rather less inclined to fly in convenient straight lines so effectiveness was very low, but gotta start somewhere.
In terms of replacement is that what the drone interceptors are for?
Interestingly this is actually were having WII style bomber gun turrets or something along the style of them (maybe not with people in now) but side, rear and forward mounted would be more useful than just forward mounted guns because as you said it would provide more flexibility and angle of attack. Coupled with the cheap laser guided rockets on wings it would probably be quite effective.
Simon, yes, that’s part of the logic. Drone interceptors are a way to replace expensive missile shots with something cheap enough to burn against cheap targets. Actually, I just made a video on YouTube about Ukraine launching drone interceptors from turboprop cargo aircraft, from hardpoints, as if they were air-to-air missiles. But a controller is onboard the plane and guides the interceptor into the target.
And I think you’re onto something with the turret idea. The old WWII bomber concept looks goofy until you remember the problem set has changed. If you’re hunting slow, low, one-way drones instead of dodging MiGs, wider firing arcs start making a lot of sense. A mix of forward guns, side or rear remote mounts, and cheap guided rockets could give a patrol aircraft far more flexibility than a nose-only setup.
Are you sure he's using a rifle and not a shotgun? It would be more effective since it doesn't need to be as accurate as a rifle would to take out the target.
Some months ago you responded that hunting drones is a lot harder at night when Russia fires most of its drones.
How quick can these different platforms find and identity drones and how difficult is it to integrate them with ground based defenses so that they aren’t mistakenly targeted?
Conor, great question. It depends on the sensor chain. If a drone is already being watched by radar or acoustics, the handoff to an interceptor or gun team can happen very quickly, sometimes in seconds. The slow part is usually classifying it correctly at night and deciding which layer should take the shot. Shaheds are loud, which helps, and layered systems are built around early detection, cueing, tracking, classification, identification, and then engagement.
The integration problem is the harder one. To keep ground defenses from shooting at friendly aircraft or friendly interceptors, everyone needs a shared air picture, clear ROE, and airspace coordination measures. Actually, Ukraine is now using the "Sky Map" command-and-control system, which links over 10,000 acoustic sensors and AI to detect and combat drone threats.
Biden making sure Ukraine can’t win by giving them just enough weapons to halt but not push back Russia is one reason. Progressives as national security advisors are bad for national security.
I share your cynicism, and I do think there’s a real criticism here. I think Biden's team was consistently more afraid of escalation than of battlefield stagnation, and that caution often translated into delayed decisions, half-steps, and weapons arriving later than Ukraine needed them. This damaged Ukraine's momentum in the first two years.
I share your frustration with the Biden teams obsession and fear of escalation (as if the guy who sat at the end of an 80 foot table during COVID would be prepared to launch a Nuclear Murder-Suicide pact) but I would take Biden helping but not enough over Trump actively trying to help the Russians win every day and twice on Sundays
I am less worried by a Shaheed that can shoot back than I am by these jet power Shaheeds being used to hunt the prop planes, isn't it possible that while that plane is up there hunting the piston drones, that Russia could fire a Jet Shaheed at the plane?
Low tech ingenuity can be very cost effective. Of course if Russia' was doing this it would be mocked as desperately lacking planes, but that's the way the Epstein controlled media rolls...
Maybe the Nobel Committee should establish an Innovation Prize. If they did, Ukraine should receive it in 2025, 2026 and beyond. In the meantime, they should do the world a solid and give Ukraine the Peace Prize.
The Yak 52 looks like it's equivalent to the old T-6. I can think of several prop aircraft (singles and multi) currently available that can be adapted to hunt drones, like the Tucano you mentioned. I wonder if Ukraine is looking for faster alternatives?
Air to air gunnery isn't easy. Their accuracy is impressive. Slava Ukrani!
Get close. "It's not a precision rifle, it's a close quarters solution".
Install a bi-pedal, highly adaptable servo mechanism equipped with an integral sensor suite and logic systems....
i recall a similar imbalance in the 1970s between apartheid Rhodesia flying postwar British propeller-driven planes & (i think it was Mozambique) flying Soviet MiGs - The latter not being able to fly slowly-enough to engage with the Rhodesians.
This is literally early Great War air combat tactics from before they started mounting MGs on planes - observers plinking at the enemy with rifles. In a somewhat exotic touch the Germans used a number of Mexican Mondragon self-loading rifles for the job, which as bonus turned out to be capable of using a slightly modified version of the Luger pistol's (in)famous snail-drum magazine to increase mag depth.
Adversaries were ofc rather less inclined to fly in convenient straight lines so effectiveness was very low, but gotta start somewhere.
In terms of replacement is that what the drone interceptors are for?
Interestingly this is actually were having WII style bomber gun turrets or something along the style of them (maybe not with people in now) but side, rear and forward mounted would be more useful than just forward mounted guns because as you said it would provide more flexibility and angle of attack. Coupled with the cheap laser guided rockets on wings it would probably be quite effective.
Simon, yes, that’s part of the logic. Drone interceptors are a way to replace expensive missile shots with something cheap enough to burn against cheap targets. Actually, I just made a video on YouTube about Ukraine launching drone interceptors from turboprop cargo aircraft, from hardpoints, as if they were air-to-air missiles. But a controller is onboard the plane and guides the interceptor into the target.
And I think you’re onto something with the turret idea. The old WWII bomber concept looks goofy until you remember the problem set has changed. If you’re hunting slow, low, one-way drones instead of dodging MiGs, wider firing arcs start making a lot of sense. A mix of forward guns, side or rear remote mounts, and cheap guided rockets could give a patrol aircraft far more flexibility than a nose-only setup.
Seems like an old Douglas Dauntless would be a perfect fit for this mission!
Are you sure he's using a rifle and not a shotgun? It would be more effective since it doesn't need to be as accurate as a rifle would to take out the target.
100% sure. But your point is well taken. Could be a special type of fragmentation ammo like a shotgun.
Oh, it's probably a bit slow, but I would like to see a few new build Broncos hunting drones... :-)
That would be amazing to watch!
Maybe the Ukrainians should get a few of these. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boulton_Paul_Defiant
Great article!
Some months ago you responded that hunting drones is a lot harder at night when Russia fires most of its drones.
How quick can these different platforms find and identity drones and how difficult is it to integrate them with ground based defenses so that they aren’t mistakenly targeted?
Conor, great question. It depends on the sensor chain. If a drone is already being watched by radar or acoustics, the handoff to an interceptor or gun team can happen very quickly, sometimes in seconds. The slow part is usually classifying it correctly at night and deciding which layer should take the shot. Shaheds are loud, which helps, and layered systems are built around early detection, cueing, tracking, classification, identification, and then engagement.
The integration problem is the harder one. To keep ground defenses from shooting at friendly aircraft or friendly interceptors, everyone needs a shared air picture, clear ROE, and airspace coordination measures. Actually, Ukraine is now using the "Sky Map" command-and-control system, which links over 10,000 acoustic sensors and AI to detect and combat drone threats.
Impressive combination of innovation and what’s available at low cost. Stopgaps, but they are needed to.
Biden making sure Ukraine can’t win by giving them just enough weapons to halt but not push back Russia is one reason. Progressives as national security advisors are bad for national security.
I share your cynicism, and I do think there’s a real criticism here. I think Biden's team was consistently more afraid of escalation than of battlefield stagnation, and that caution often translated into delayed decisions, half-steps, and weapons arriving later than Ukraine needed them. This damaged Ukraine's momentum in the first two years.
I share your frustration with the Biden teams obsession and fear of escalation (as if the guy who sat at the end of an 80 foot table during COVID would be prepared to launch a Nuclear Murder-Suicide pact) but I would take Biden helping but not enough over Trump actively trying to help the Russians win every day and twice on Sundays
I am less worried by a Shaheed that can shoot back than I am by these jet power Shaheeds being used to hunt the prop planes, isn't it possible that while that plane is up there hunting the piston drones, that Russia could fire a Jet Shaheed at the plane?
What's the cost of APKWS solution?
Low tech ingenuity can be very cost effective. Of course if Russia' was doing this it would be mocked as desperately lacking planes, but that's the way the Epstein controlled media rolls...
Let Hegseth know, he shoots them down with $10m worth of ptriots